From: Ivan Arce (ivan.arce@coresecurity.com)
Date: Tue May 16 2006 - 21:06:18 EDT
Frankly I don't see what kind of logical reasoning leads from
defining the scope for a penetration test ex-ante to committing fraud,
maybe I need some rest to ponder about these things more seriously.
Disregarding what is exactly disclosed after a penetration test (and to
whom), which is what you are driving towards the fraud conclusion,
a precise definition of scope *before* engaging in a penetration test aims at:
- providing good data for precise estimation of cost, time, effort
- providing a good indication of desired focus
- providing a good indication of desired depth
- providing a good indication of undesired breadth
All of the above are NOT independent variables that can be considered
separately. Finding the optimal mix for a given organization and the best
suited team for that mix is the key to differentiate a good penetration test
from a lousy one.
-ivan
mr.nasty@ix.netcom.com wrote:
> Rules of Engagement Scope is as absurd as legally shredding audit papers.
>
>
> Let me give you an example.
>
> Pen-Tests are usually performed after a vulnerability test, which is done
> to support a financial audit, which is used to provide shareholders
> definite information regarding the stability of an organization.
>
> If an organization requires a limited scope pen-test without disclosure
> wouldn't this constitute as a lie? Think about this just for a second. If
> you sign a Government form and there are mistakes on the form then you
> can be charged with FRAUD.
>
> So if an organization establishes 'ROE' that sets a limited scope on the
> pen-test without public disclosure, why is that different than FRAUD?
>
> National Security?
>
> MHO is that pen-tests are as important as the certified financial
> statements used by organizations and should have public disclaimers of
> ROE. When an organization is audited with certain constraints that
> information is or should be disclosed within those statements.
>
> Information that is not disclosed regarding these limitations to me is
> considered FRAUD!
>
> But then, that's just my opinion I could be monitored, jailed, fined and
> detained.
>
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-- --- "Buy the ticket, take the ride" -HST Ivan Arce CTO CORE SECURITY TECHNOLOGIES http://www.coresecurity.com PGP Fingerprint: C7A8 ED85 8D7B 9ADC 6836 B25D 207B E78E 2AD1 F65A ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ This List Sponsored by: Cenzic Concerned about Web Application Security? Why not go with the #1 solution - Cenzic, the only one to win the Analyst's Choice Award from eWeek. As attacks through web applications continue to rise, you need to proactively protect your applications from hackers. Cenzic has the most comprehensive solutions to meet your application security penetration testing and vulnerability management needs. You have an option to go with a managed service (Cenzic ClickToSecure) or an enterprise software (Cenzic Hailstorm). Download FREE whitepaper on how a managed service can help you: http://www.cenzic.com/news_events/wpappsec.php And, now for a limited time we can do a FREE audit for you to confirm your results from other product. Contact us at request@cenzic.com for details. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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