From: Shaon Diwakar (shaon.diwakar@yahoo.com.au)
Date: Mon Aug 13 2007 - 07:20:35 EDT
Hi Peter,
I was under the impression that you might have wanted to setup a pen test lab for attack & penetration type of work. As far as I know, there is no real learning benefit from working remotely versus locally - though, others on the list might have further insights? Then again, I'm sure using your existing hardware & creativity - you'd be able to simulate an external network locally :)
Regards,
sHz
----- Original Message ----
From: Peter Manis <manis@digital39.com>
To: "Shenk, Jerry A" <jshenk@decommunications.com>
Cc: pen-test@securityfocus.com
Sent: Sunday, 12 August, 2007 1:40:32 PM
Subject: Re: Lab OS Choices
Is there a benefit to performing pen tests on physical machines vs
virtual machines? I was under the impression that for the most part
the differences are very slim.
Shaon you mentioned that you thought I wanted to test remotely. It
isn't that I don't want to I just figured for a lab it would be fine
to do it internal. Is there a learning benefit to working remotely vs
locally? I don't mean local like attack ip = 10.0.10.1 and victim ip =
10.0.10.2 both with a 24 bit subnet I mean with routers in between and
subnet changes, etc.
Thanks.
PM
On 8/11/07, Shenk, Jerry A <jshenk@decommunications.com> wrote:
> You definitely want something that you can exploit so that you can lean
> how the exploits work. You also want to have a variety of operating
> systems with a variety of patch levels. I'd also recommend having
> enough stuff so that you can test a lot of the operating system that
> you'll run into. Having said that, you also need to start
> somewhere...then you lab can grow.
>
> I think I'd start with an unpatched Windows 2000 server. There are a
> ton of exploits and you can get a good handle on how stuff works.
> Honestly, you aren't gonna run into too many unpatched W2K boxes out
> there so once you have that box set up, image the drive and start
> applying service packs. You will run into W2K boxes with a couple
> service packs but not all of them. You'll also want to have a box set
> up that is fully patched so that you can understand how your exploits
> work against a patched OS.
>
> Another really nice, fun system is a Windows 2003 server without any
> patches. You'll also want to take that unpatched W2003 server and take
> an image of that up to the end of March. That's fairly current but
> still vulnerable to some REALLY nasty exploits - RPC/DNS for one lets
> you own the box and in most cases, the box you'd be owning would be the
> DNS server which also has AD so you can create a user and make them an
> enterprise admin...definitely a HUGE hole for a relatively recent OS.
> BTW, you can also play with that same exploit on any other DNS server
> that's a DC....really nasty!
>
> You want to play with some workstation-class exploits too. Set up a
> mail server and an exchange client so you can do some of the exchange
> client exploits.
>
> When I'm talking about "setting up a box", I have a couple old servers
> with drives that I swap around for this type of stuff....stuff people
> were throwing out. So for me, "a box" is really just a single drive.
> If you get used equipment, wipe the drives before you mess with 'em.
> You really don't want to accidently leak somebody else' data. I know
> this is a lab environment and it shouldn't "leak" but still...they
> probably didn't wipe the drive or I certainly wouldn't trust 'em.
>
> VMware is also very popular. Each individual machine also fits my
> definition of "a box". I would recommend that you have at least a
> couple "real machines" that you use but VMware is a really slick way to
> test things out. There are some attacks that act differently on VMware
> and a "real machine"....that's why you have a lab, so you can learn
> those differences.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: listbounce@securityfocus.com [mailto:listbounce@securityfocus.com]
> On Behalf Of Peter Manis
> Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2007 6:40 PM
> To: pen-test@securityfocus.com
> Subject: Lab OS Choices
>
> I am new to the world of pen testing and am working on building a lab.
> What operating systems and versions do you recommend for a good all
> around lab. Windows of course is a big one, but do you go back to 98?
> Being a beginner I would think having all the patches on XP or Vista
> might make it difficult to learn. I would also think adding a secure
> OS like openbsd would be a waste of time for a beginner to try to gain
> access to. All advice is appreciated.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> This list is sponsored by: Cenzic
>
> Need to secure your web apps NOW?
> Cenzic finds more, "real" vulnerabilities fast.
> Click to try it, buy it or download a solution FREE today!
>
> http://www.cenzic.com/downloads
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> **DISCLAIMER
> This e-mail message and any files transmitted with it are intended for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed and may contain information that is privileged, proprietary and confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you may not use, copy or disclose to anyone the message or any information contained in the message. If you have received this communication in error, please notify the sender and delete this e-mail message. The contents do not represent the opinion of D&E except to the extent that it relates to their official business.
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
This list is sponsored by: Cenzic
Need to secure your web apps NOW?
Cenzic finds more, "real" vulnerabilities fast.
Click to try it, buy it or download a solution FREE today!
http://www.cenzic.com/downloads
------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------
This list is sponsored by: Cenzic
Need to secure your web apps NOW?
Cenzic finds more, "real" vulnerabilities fast.
Click to try it, buy it or download a solution FREE today!
http://www.cenzic.com/downloads
------------------------------------------------------------------------
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.7 : Sat Apr 12 2008 - 10:58:01 EDT